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	<title>Comments on: Game Developer Column 3: Game Economics</title>
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	<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114</link>
	<description>Soren Johnson's Game Design Journal</description>
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		<title>By: Erin Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-19722</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 05:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-19722</guid>
		<description>This is indeed an interesting summary of the role of the economic system in video games historically, and thank you for writing and publishing it. :)

To add to the EVE comment above, it&#039;s interesting that what you describe in terms of resource allocation across the world-space is exactly what drives much of the gameplay in EVE. According to Dr. Gundmunsson they deliberately distributed resources needed for various crafting systems across the world, such that the creation of X specific item requires resources from vastly separated regions of the galaxy -- stimulating trade.

What Vicente&#039;s point above illustrates is the need for a strong metrics system (a technology tool) in conjunction with the steady economics hand on the design wheel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is indeed an interesting summary of the role of the economic system in video games historically, and thank you for writing and publishing it. <img src='http://www.designer-notes.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>To add to the EVE comment above, it&#8217;s interesting that what you describe in terms of resource allocation across the world-space is exactly what drives much of the gameplay in EVE. According to Dr. Gundmunsson they deliberately distributed resources needed for various crafting systems across the world, such that the creation of X specific item requires resources from vastly separated regions of the galaxy &#8212; stimulating trade.</p>
<p>What Vicente&#8217;s point above illustrates is the need for a strong metrics system (a technology tool) in conjunction with the steady economics hand on the design wheel.</p>
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		<title>By: Industry Broadcast - Bringing the Greatest Articles from the Video Game Industry on Game Design, Game Programming, Team Management, and much more to your ears</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18988</link>
		<dc:creator>Industry Broadcast - Bringing the Greatest Articles from the Video Game Industry on Game Design, Game Programming, Team Management, and much more to your ears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18988</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Game Economics&#8216; - Original [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Game Economics&#8216; &#8211; Original [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RFHolloway</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18847</link>
		<dc:creator>RFHolloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18847</guid>
		<description>The game Atlantica Online is young enough to have an emerging economy - with people still working out the best strategies. It has a couple of interesting features - fixed prices (the game will sell the players an unlimited quantity of items at a fixed price) and boxes (a random amount of a material from a known list is generated).  The crafting system seems fairly standard, but there is no specific resource generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The game Atlantica Online is young enough to have an emerging economy &#8211; with people still working out the best strategies. It has a couple of interesting features &#8211; fixed prices (the game will sell the players an unlimited quantity of items at a fixed price) and boxes (a random amount of a material from a known list is generated).  The crafting system seems fairly standard, but there is no specific resource generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Game Tycoon&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Articles of Interest</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18844</link>
		<dc:creator>Game Tycoon&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Articles of Interest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18844</guid>
		<description>[...] has written an excellent article about in-game economies&#8230; the kind of article that begs for a follow-up or two. (Hint, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has written an excellent article about in-game economies&#8230; the kind of article that begs for a follow-up or two. (Hint, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18683</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18683</guid>
		<description>One game series I find has a very strong economic model is the &#039;Supreme Ruler&#039; series by BattleGoat Studios.  Since it&#039;s an RTS/simulation based on the modern world, I suppose that makes it&#039;s economic model that much more important.  The first title, &#039;Supreme Ruler 2010&#039;, had a market where players could buy and sell at prices of their own choosing, and if their selling price was too high then the goods would stay &#039;on the market&#039;.  This created a &#039;buyers have to pay more/sellers have to sell for less&#039; approach to balance supply and demand, but there was an artificial &#039;world market&#039; that could bring in goods from off-map, so the system lacked the ability to be &#039;manipulated&#039; by buyers or sellers.

The sequel title &#039;Supreme Ruler 2020&#039; simulates the entire world at once, so the commodity system is closed.  If most of the Uranium or Oil exporters turn off the pumps, then the availability of those commodities becomes limited and the prices go through the roof.  This version uses more of a central &#039;futures market&#039; approach (meaning that each day has a set buy/sell price that changes according to market conditions), though players can buypass the markets and make deals with individual countries directly.  The whole system works great and is really cool to play on.  Since the game has 11 commodities and there are some subtle commodity relationships, it adds a whole new element.  (For example, electricity can be produced by hydro dams, or oil fired power plants, or nuclear plants using uranium, etc.  Finished good like Consumer goods require a number of raw material inputs, but they allow producers to make a profit selling those goods if the markets are strong for them, etc).

I think these games get the closest to &#039;real world&#039; economics of anything I&#039;ve seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One game series I find has a very strong economic model is the &#8216;Supreme Ruler&#8217; series by BattleGoat Studios.  Since it&#8217;s an RTS/simulation based on the modern world, I suppose that makes it&#8217;s economic model that much more important.  The first title, &#8216;Supreme Ruler 2010&#8242;, had a market where players could buy and sell at prices of their own choosing, and if their selling price was too high then the goods would stay &#8216;on the market&#8217;.  This created a &#8216;buyers have to pay more/sellers have to sell for less&#8217; approach to balance supply and demand, but there was an artificial &#8216;world market&#8217; that could bring in goods from off-map, so the system lacked the ability to be &#8216;manipulated&#8217; by buyers or sellers.</p>
<p>The sequel title &#8216;Supreme Ruler 2020&#8242; simulates the entire world at once, so the commodity system is closed.  If most of the Uranium or Oil exporters turn off the pumps, then the availability of those commodities becomes limited and the prices go through the roof.  This version uses more of a central &#8216;futures market&#8217; approach (meaning that each day has a set buy/sell price that changes according to market conditions), though players can buypass the markets and make deals with individual countries directly.  The whole system works great and is really cool to play on.  Since the game has 11 commodities and there are some subtle commodity relationships, it adds a whole new element.  (For example, electricity can be produced by hydro dams, or oil fired power plants, or nuclear plants using uranium, etc.  Finished good like Consumer goods require a number of raw material inputs, but they allow producers to make a profit selling those goods if the markets are strong for them, etc).</p>
<p>I think these games get the closest to &#8216;real world&#8217; economics of anything I&#8217;ve seen.</p>
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		<title>By: Game design tips from top game designers &#171; Lightspeed Venture Partners Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18404</link>
		<dc:creator>Game design tips from top game designers &#171; Lightspeed Venture Partners Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18404</guid>
		<description>[...] Soren Johnson gives some success and failure examples for balancing an in-game economy. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Soren Johnson gives some success and failure examples for balancing an in-game economy. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Louisvillian</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-18355</link>
		<dc:creator>Louisvillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-18355</guid>
		<description>The economics of a game must follow and submit to the the known economic laws of the real world. We know the law of supply, and the law of demand.  It does not matter if they are in a game or not; these laws are simply fact: when private items have value, offer utility, and they have a private cost, a market will provide the most efficient outcome.

As for how a game market should be setup I believe the guild/crafting system in place in most games is best; with an auction house for the materials and the final product.  This allows for the best flow of information between both producers and consumers. The best example I know of this was ffxi.  However it also has its problems, items that were player specific jumbled the market every time one was released.  But the market was successful and did work.  On the weekends demand went up and the price of most finished goods went up.

What was most interesting about the market in ffxi is how it transitioned.  When the game was first developed there were a ton of low players farming for their money.  This led to the crafters, the industrialists, making most of the profit on a good.  However as the market transitioned and everyone (more people) began crafting the value of production went down, and the profit transitioned into the initial mining, the farming, the initial production of raw goods.  As a crafter this sucked for me, but it just meant I had to watch the auction house and crunch the numbers more often (which I actually enjoyed).  What finally put the nail in crafting though was a website that listed every production recipe with the current cost of the materials and the price history of the finished good.  With this information released all, for example, gold or blacksmithers could simply go down the list and see where the profit was in making an item, there was no number crunching, just reading.  The website helped most people Im sure, because they were spending their money on goods that were now lower in price.  For me it wasn&#039;t fun though, because half of my fun in the game came from crafting and the auction house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The economics of a game must follow and submit to the the known economic laws of the real world. We know the law of supply, and the law of demand.  It does not matter if they are in a game or not; these laws are simply fact: when private items have value, offer utility, and they have a private cost, a market will provide the most efficient outcome.</p>
<p>As for how a game market should be setup I believe the guild/crafting system in place in most games is best; with an auction house for the materials and the final product.  This allows for the best flow of information between both producers and consumers. The best example I know of this was ffxi.  However it also has its problems, items that were player specific jumbled the market every time one was released.  But the market was successful and did work.  On the weekends demand went up and the price of most finished goods went up.</p>
<p>What was most interesting about the market in ffxi is how it transitioned.  When the game was first developed there were a ton of low players farming for their money.  This led to the crafters, the industrialists, making most of the profit on a good.  However as the market transitioned and everyone (more people) began crafting the value of production went down, and the profit transitioned into the initial mining, the farming, the initial production of raw goods.  As a crafter this sucked for me, but it just meant I had to watch the auction house and crunch the numbers more often (which I actually enjoyed).  What finally put the nail in crafting though was a website that listed every production recipe with the current cost of the materials and the price history of the finished good.  With this information released all, for example, gold or blacksmithers could simply go down the list and see where the profit was in making an item, there was no number crunching, just reading.  The website helped most people Im sure, because they were spending their money on goods that were now lower in price.  For me it wasn&#8217;t fun though, because half of my fun in the game came from crafting and the auction house.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-17950</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-17950</guid>
		<description>I am currently quite fascinated about how global economy and markets work so I found this article very very interesting.

However, you mention very little about how in-game economics  may be used to encourage the players to diversify in strategies. I wonder if it is possible to study that diversity that is generated inside the game dynamics from an economics point of view, i.e. as another resource to be maximized like profit is in a market. Maybe players work much more like the agents in the theory of a free market, since the can focus on maximizing (fun through achievements) without considering most of the emotional or irrational behaviors that take place in the real world. Somehow the equilibrium of diversity, fun, level of difficulty, etc is an emergent property of the game dynamics.

It is just something I am thinking right now, maybe it does not make much sense. Do you have any recommendations on related articles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently quite fascinated about how global economy and markets work so I found this article very very interesting.</p>
<p>However, you mention very little about how in-game economics  may be used to encourage the players to diversify in strategies. I wonder if it is possible to study that diversity that is generated inside the game dynamics from an economics point of view, i.e. as another resource to be maximized like profit is in a market. Maybe players work much more like the agents in the theory of a free market, since the can focus on maximizing (fun through achievements) without considering most of the emotional or irrational behaviors that take place in the real world. Somehow the equilibrium of diversity, fun, level of difficulty, etc is an emergent property of the game dynamics.</p>
<p>It is just something I am thinking right now, maybe it does not make much sense. Do you have any recommendations on related articles?</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-17948</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-17948</guid>
		<description>Would you recommend a recent game with a core economic mechanic? M.U.L.E. is a bit old :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you recommend a recent game with a core economic mechanic? M.U.L.E. is a bit old <img src='http://www.designer-notes.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alan Au</title>
		<link>http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114&#038;cpage=1#comment-17795</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=114#comment-17795</guid>
		<description>Great read.  Some quick comments:

The real world contains some economically unviable things (as I&#039;m sure we&#039;re all too aware these days).  I guess it&#039;s appropriate to place similarly unviable things in a game, except that it might be considered a waste of developer resources (and perhaps player time).  That is, why would a player use something that is strictly worse than something else?

So on that point of scrictly better or worse, there are many tradeoffs that can be used to alter the quality of an in-game item, things like accessibility or timeliness or potential for future improvement/upgrade.

Speaking of tradeoffs, one of my favorite cost models is Advance Wars, where having a light tank now might be better than having a medium tank in two turns.  That is, the real value of a unit isn&#039;t its direct cost, but its situational use.  

The other weird cost example I like is the Age of Empires pikemen vs. knights problem; a knight still beats a pikeman, but not a knight-equivalent-cost number of pikemen.

Oh, and this discussion reminded me of your post from late 2007: http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=70</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great read.  Some quick comments:</p>
<p>The real world contains some economically unviable things (as I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;re all too aware these days).  I guess it&#8217;s appropriate to place similarly unviable things in a game, except that it might be considered a waste of developer resources (and perhaps player time).  That is, why would a player use something that is strictly worse than something else?</p>
<p>So on that point of scrictly better or worse, there are many tradeoffs that can be used to alter the quality of an in-game item, things like accessibility or timeliness or potential for future improvement/upgrade.</p>
<p>Speaking of tradeoffs, one of my favorite cost models is Advance Wars, where having a light tank now might be better than having a medium tank in two turns.  That is, the real value of a unit isn&#8217;t its direct cost, but its situational use.  </p>
<p>The other weird cost example I like is the Age of Empires pikemen vs. knights problem; a knight still beats a pikeman, but not a knight-equivalent-cost number of pikemen.</p>
<p>Oh, and this discussion reminded me of your post from late 2007: <a href="http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=70" rel="nofollow">http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=70</a></p>
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